can I say that it's *really distressing* to hear POC say that they might as well leave mastodon.

Not distressing as in "I'm made anxious by hearing their complaint", (though it does make me anxious), "and wish I didn't have to hear their complaints"

It's distressing that we haven't made a space that listens to their voices and that things are bad enough that "I might as well go back to TWITTER" makes sense, like twitter is a more welcoming place for them.

THAT'S A PROBLEM

@tcql honestly?

I'm not entirely sure why the idea that Twitter could be a more welcoming space for _anybody_ has to be this extremely shocking idea.

Like sure it's terrible for some people, but great for others! Just like any social media network! Hell I've had much better experiences on REDDIT than Mastodon. yknow.

The whole "we're better than Y site" mentality drives me nuts coz it often comes from sites where I've faced a fair bit of trouble.

@creatrixtiara 👌 I'm more saying this from the perspective of "a centralized site that's known for ignoring harassment" is a better solution than one where CoCs are promoted and ideally an admin who will actually respond is available.

Twitter as a platform isn't inherently bad, its execution has some fundamental flaws that they're consistently not addressed. I guess that's the direction for my feelings that this is bad

@tcql
"one where CoCs are promoted and ideally an admin who will actually respond is available."

This seems heavily dependent on instances having COCs and admins not being hostile. Or for admins to get along with each other.

Having been the subject of intense harassment from an instance admin who claimed all my reports were "lies", I find this sytem way less trustworthy than a more centralised avenue.

@creatrixtiara oof yea. I saw that whole thing from afar and it sounded fucking awful

I meant like a local admin that you trust to some extent. Other instance admins are ???? extremely unknown quantities.

The ability to start a server doesn't make you good at responding to people's complaints. But if you're running an instance with an extensive & protective COC you should be up to enforcing that or building a team of moderators who are

@tcql @creatrixtiara fwiw, this structure at least made it pretty straightforward to block that admin's whole instance. The problem is we don't have the mechanisms yet to propagate that knowledge effectively and quickly enough to nip it in the bud - we can stop it from happening *again* on a local level, but can't stop it from happening in the first place, or respond globally at all. This is a problem.

@abgd @tcql yeah, and the only one with the power to do that blocking is another instance admin - which meant me trying to find a sympathetic instance to begin with

@creatrixtiara @tcql basically I think this model is intended to have small communities where everyone more or less knows and trusts the admin. but we don't actually have any tools right now for making that the case - if you don't already know you know an admin, you just stumble into a list of instances and pick one that seems okay and you don't actually have the direct contact with your admin which this model requires... :\\\